From quakeproplus@hotmail.com Thu Jun 27 18:30:30 2002 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:17:42 +0000 From: William B. To: jpg@ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: xquake/proquake Mr Grossman, "Glad to hear it. Can I assume, then, that we agree that transparent water is a cheat? (Read my ProQuake FAQ if you haven't already)" Absolutely. I read your ProQuake FAQ explanation awhile ago. Awhile back a friend sent me "textureless maps" heralding how much they improved gameplay. I found the textureless maps odd because I could see player models much better in shadows. I also found that since the map was a single solid color I could make out player models much better in general. This was because the player models textures were sharply contrasted against the backdrop of the textureless maps. These reasons in of themself I found disagreeable. I also discovered the textureless maps had Vis'd (water hacked) water. When player models were in the water I found I could spot them before they had actually surfaced (to approx. 2 virtual feet). I also found that the player models were very easy to target as they submerged from the surface since I could see the direction they were moving as they went deeper. I find "textureless maps" and "water hacked" maps completely unacceptable and I would never endorse such a cheat. "When you disregard the license under which the source code was released for purely selfish reasons, you thumb your nose at both of us and our efforts." My motivation was never selfish. Nor did I ever mean any disrespect to you or John C. From the outset I wanted to create a secure (anti-cheat) client/server. I understood that if I released the source code before my work had become popular, people would have created their own versions of XQuake/QPro+ or adapted the source to their own projects. This would of caused the demand for my engine to be greatly weakened. If people could find the same features in XQuake/QPro+ in 100's of other Quake engines, the demand for XQuake/QPro+ wouldn't have never come to fruition. The reasons I released the binaries before the core engine and secure client/server was completed was: 1. To recieve feedback from the public about what they liked/disliked, along with any problems people were having with the engine ; 2. I wanted the project to be popular so the secure client/server would be widely accepted into the Quake community My strategy upon completion of the core engine and secure client/server was: 1. Change the name of the Project from QuakePro+ to something different ; 2. Release the source code to the core engine with exception of the secure client/server code ; 3. Spend most of the time improving the secure client/server code in future updates "This is actually what I wanted to email you about. I only have one stipulation, which is that you comply fully with the GPL. In particular, this means zipping up the xquake source NOW before you start modifying it, because the GPL requires you to make available the source code for ANY executable that you have previously released. So if people ask you for the 1.03s source, you need to give it to them." Does this mean you are prepared to release the Proquake 3.01 source code upon request? "As for your specific fears, they were entirely unfounded. I was not interested in your source code; I merely wanted proof that you were willing to comply with the GPL." There's a lot of other people with popular projects that date long before XQuake/QPro+. You could of harrassed them about the GPL. BRQuake, More QuakeWorld, and Richmarks Quakebot to name a few. Why choose to single out the new guy? "BTW, what happened when I tried to run xquake (windows version, not GL) is that it would connect and then immediately disconnect and leave me in the console with no error message. This was when trying to connect to a regular ProQuake server." What version of XQuake did you have this problem with? Probably something to do with the secure client/server code if it's a secure client your using. "What was the problem that you had with ProQuake?" The computer was a ECS K7VMA mainboard with 256MB PC133 Micron RAM and a 30 GB Quantum Fireball HD. The video card was a GF2 MX400 PowerForce card made by PowerColor. The system was running Windows 98 SE. The sound card was Optical3D with a C-Media CMI8738 chipset. Not what you'd call a good gaming machine but when I ran Proquake it felt choppy and would freeze at times. XQuake was smooth and problem free. I have not been able to replicate the problem on any other system setup I have had. For the record, when you first asked me for the QPro+ source code, I said I would be happy to supply you with the code for any particular features that may of interest you. I was only uncomfortable releasing the "entire" source code for the project. This was partially becaus of a low level cheat detection in QPro+. When people typed say_team version? in the console all the clients of the same team on the server using QPro+ would immediately respond with the client name and version of the QPro+ client they were using. This was a way to prove that people were not using the ever popular Quakebot client by Richmark which has toggle glow cheats, timers, fake ping adjust, toggle aim bot, and a host of other cheats. My final defense is in all this time the XQuake/QPro+ has been publicly available, I had not once been contacted by Id Software requesting for me to release the Source code. At least not until very recently when Stan Allan first arrived at the scene. If Id Software did not care enough to enforce the GPL for a 7 yr old game that they probably no longer made any money with then in my mind there was really no burden in what I was doing. I still believe that the only reason Id Software finally did contact me is because Stan Allan was making a such a huge fuss about it. I'm sure Idsoftware felt they had to show face and not have a GPL zealot like Stan telling everyone that ID wasn't doing their job. At least Stan came along at an opportune time because it wasn't until very recently that I felt comfortable releasing the "entire" source code for XQuake. I assure you had Id Software contacted me earlier I would of either dropped the project or released the source. -Bill _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com